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❄️ @sn0w

Daily reminder that you should not use Discord unless you like sending 100% identifiable analytics events for every single action you perfom in their app.

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@ivesen As soon as someone writes an IRC spin-off that doesn't require hosting a bouncer and has remotely usable clients :^)

@sn0w @ivesen
i like very much the ability to use a bouncer. it does lots of cool things like client-program independent plugins, always-on irc bridges to other chat things via bitlbee etc, and hiding both traffic destination from third parties and information about the client machine from the remote server.

so would hope whatever thing that gets popular would have an irc-compatible client protocol and just have whatever frontend have built-in backlog support for the people who want to use it to have something easy. or maybe have it something that can be enabled or disabled optionally

@sn0w @ivesen solves bouncer problem (as long as someone else has a bouncer and/or the channel is plenty active): gist.github.com/SoniEx2/441dd2

just need to get someone to implement it... alternatively, pleroma chat?

@sn0w When you aren't paying for a service or product, *you* are the item being sold.

@gme @sn0w Sadly, even when you *are* paying you're often the product.

And there's plenty of open source services and products where you're not the product.

@bhtooefr @gme ^ this

A lot of services seem to offer paid plans to make it look like they had a source of income that's worth more than spying on their users.

@bhtooefr @sn0w well fuck that.

At least Keybase.io's Teams don't do anything like that (I don't think) and there's always Riot/Matrix I suppose.

@sn0w @bhtooefr @gme
legit surprised someone told me that discord was funded through nitro like
maybe nitro can cover hosting like reddit gold covers server costs, but the real value is in your data. That venture capital ain't gonna pay itself off!

@sn0w I've already seen a request that didn't make me very happy to see it when I've opened the mighty inspector of doom :P

@sn0w But every data and metadata is already on their servers. What does that change?

@sn0w hmmmm i should write a plugin to disable analytics maybe

@ashkitten oh neat. I hope Franz/Rambox have a way to inject that code 🤔

@sn0w well it looks like it just launches the webapp internally so probably easy enough to inject endpwn lite

@staticsafe Discord is just a website that diguises as a desktop app using a hidden Chrome.

Simply press ctrl+shift+i to open Chrome's devtools.

@sn0w aha, thanks, I forgot Discord is an Electron app

@sn0w @kura DI plugin to disable that endpoint when

@zeta @kura Native discord client that only implements the sane API parts when

@sn0w @kura depends, do you care about Voice and Video call support?

@zeta @kura Voice support would be cool, but I'd also happily take a good chat-only client and force my friends onto TS or Mumble 🤷

@sn0w Is there something especially egregious about the way Discord is tracking app metrics? I feel like the same is true of any modern app that's measuring engagement.

@annika I think what sets Discord a bit apart is that they are very good at hiding their business practices and design decisions behind memes, colourful animated graphics, and their overly colloquial (almost child-like) language.

They always act like they were some cool friend who graciously hosts a chat for you and not yet another data-eating startup by the guy who built OpenFeint.

@sn0w Probably also worth noting that it's the service of choice for many minors these days.

@sn0w @annika

"We wrapped IRC in a shiny new proprietary package. It's a revolutionary new product. No, of course it isn't compatible with IRC or anything else. Why would you want that?"

@starbreaker @sn0w @annika i've honestly thought about learning Electron just to make a better discord app....than the real one.

@sn0w @annika running your own server with that kind of functionality is not hard. And I'm not saying that because was part of developing such product (open source, I'm not trying to sell anything)

@sn0w Which endpoint does it send this too? I'd like to try and block it with umatrix in my browser, if it uses a separate one.

@elomatreb It's a POST to discordapp.com/api/v6/science

@sn0w I sincerely hope no one is surprised by this.

Discord might be hiphop with the memes and twitch chat but how the hell else are they going to pay for their free forever model? By selling you.

@sn0w i keep hoping a mastodon equivalent of discord will come into existence. IRC is too antique and complicated (read: the necessity of bouncers) to get people to switch back to, and I hate that getting Discord’s features means getting Discord’s spying, bloated client, etc

@esselfortium same. Imo we need something like Matrix/Riot that "just works" to convince "normal" users to use a federated chat instead of Discord. I wish I had enough free time to code such a platform :aquaDed:

@sn0w So it's like Google and using Chrome... or the web at all really.

@benis Well the difference is that I voluntarily published that data in your screenshot to everyone. From a good chat app I expect that the only person who is entrusted with keeping my data and metadata "safe" is the person I'm chatting with.

@sn0w Well the difference is that I voluntarily published that data in your screenshot to everyone. From a good chat app I expect that the only person who is entrusted with keeping my data and metadata "safe" is the person I'm chatting with.

Do you Social Network Profile?


> Do you Social Network Profile?

No. I did register a Facebook account at some point but I never actually used it for anything.

@benis @animeirl I love it when people make unjustified assumptions about me. I mean hey you've seen some of my toots and read my bio so you must certainly know everything about me :bibakappa:

@benis How does this apply to the conversation again? I said I *don't* use social media :thonk:

@sn0w pretty sure @benis is just trolling you. why else would he link a pjw video?

@animeirl I never used facebook, so don't @ me. I even third party verified, I don't even have ghost profile. so GL!
>Facebook purge is a javascript (CasperJS) solution...


@animeirl @benis
@animeirl DON'T @ ME regarding Facebook.
@sn0w is just in self-denial his own instances isn't an SNS.
forget the metadata too! Sure as heck doesn't tell anyone your sleep and active schedule!

@sn0w tl;dr treat discord with folly and don't dream of using it for sensitive info?

@sn0w idk, these sorta calls seem fair enough?

Like how else is the mobile app supposed to know what channels/notifications you've read on the desktop client and mark as read/unread and vice versa?

By this logic you better not use email unless you want your email provider or server software to have 100% identfiable analytics events regarding what emails you've read????

@umby That's not the point. The data you're seeing here has nothing to do with your user presence or state. It's only purpose is to go to the /science endpoint where it is stored and analyzed. Besides, if you compare this blob of data to storing a list of channel ids with an "unread" property you'll notice how far from "technically required" their data collection is.

@umby For example: They also track how much time you spent in specific sections of the app settings - even if you didn't change anything.

@sn0w but even mastodon uses discord for development channels...

@ghost They do? I thought they have a channel on freenode or smth. The more you know 🤔

@sn0w you check it out on their patreon page

@sn0w maybe try to convince them to migrate to matrix or something decentralised...

@ghost It's not like I could really do much. They'll probably switch by themselves as soon as a good alternative arrives that is both decentralized and easy to use.

@luka Riot is cool but the backend (Matrix) is tedious to install/maintain and the other backend implementations are either alpha or pre-alpha 😞

Mumble is soooo good. Idk y gamers stop using it. I guess they like shit

@sn0w good thing the only thing they get from me is which kpop groups i like

@sn0w well other people don't want to use IRC with me so 👾

@sn0w I greatly prefer Jabber Texting, matrix, wire, and i tolerate LINE

@sn0w And there are still so many users in the fediverse which use that shit and trust it while they already noticed that they shouldn't trust Whatsapp.I'll never understand what makes Discord better for them.Both suck.

@sn0w Are you saying these calls are being sent to non-Discord domains? Because this look like standard app state data.

@sn0w what easily accessible alternatives would you suggest? I have no clue about things that aren't discord or skype.

@sn0w I guess we can both commiserate over that, then. I changed from skype to discord, because discord isn't a bonfire of awfulness, but... I guess this is where I sigh and shrug and say people are awful and if a service is free, that means you're the product.

@sn0w I wish I could have gotten my friends to join my Mumble server. ☹️

@sn0w I'm not a techy person, what does that mean for me? I use Discord daily to keep in touch with my ldr partner and stream him videogames 😭
what kind of data exactly is being collected?

@bird I recommend reading the "Information we collect" part of their Privacy Policy (discordapp.com/privacy).

Here's one of the interesting bits: "Information we collect may include but not be limited to username, email address, and any messages, images, transient VOIP data or other content you send via the chat feature."

@sn0w or unless you like a ctf for disabling this garbage in your client :^)